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Talk:Dune Boots
Hidden Effect I've heard that these are better for Monk DPS than Fuma Kyahan, but I don't see it. On top of Black Belt, Haidate and Turban, Fumas take equipment haste from 22% to 25%, which is a 4% increase in attacks/sec. With full merits and Destroyers, h2h base damage is 53, kick damage is 35 or 65 with Boots. If Kick Attack rate is 10%, base damage per round is 53*2+0.1*35 or *65 = 109.5 or 112.5, a 2.7% increase in damage/round. Fumas seem to win pretty clearly even without any Haste from spells. What am I missing? --Valyana 10:13, 25 June 2007 (CDT) :Assuming you know about the hidden effect, not everyone has full merits and Destroyers. -- 11:45, 25 June 2007 (CDT) ::So if you have merits, BB, Haidate, Turban, and Destroyers the Fumas will give out better DoT? Or is there another hidden effect to them that's not listed on the page? Zareth 18:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC) :::You get better DoT with Dune Boots, no matter what. Without Haste, 2x March, Fuma's get beaten out by the constant damage increase Dune boots give. This has been tested multiple times, but Fuma's also can be lossy with Haste, where this constant gain cannot. Use Dune Boots for Merit PT's, they're better. Use Fuma's for Utsu Tanking or with Haste + 2x March. --cyprias 00:16, 17 February 2009 (UTC) Kick Attacks Let's fix this. The number is incorrect here, probably deriving from a small mistake in calculating back the +DMG on dune boots (wulong etc are probably also off by the same number 3). It is not equivalent to a +30 weapon but to a +27 weapon. Monk's max critical damage on kicks with normal feet gear is 129. The max critical damage for kicks with dune boots is 219. (You can see those in the screenshots I had from a year ago: http://genomeffxi.livejournal.com/11121.html , and you should probably be used to seeing them after playing monk long enough). To see why it's +27 and not +30 you just have to solve the +rating for the two cases (kicks without any boots and kicks with boots), and if you want for other values like punches as extra confirmation: So MaxCrit(barehand or bare kick, +0) = (int(292*0.11+3'+0')+int((3'+0')/9)+8)*3=(43)*3='129' MaxCrit(dune boots kick, +27) = (int(292*0.11+3'+27')+int((3'+27')/9)+8)*3=(73)*3='219' Notice the same math works for things like destroyers (+18) and critical hits of 189. In contrast, assuming a +30 gives the wrong value. MaxCrit(dune boots kick, +30) = (int(292*0.11+3'+30')+int((3'+30')/9)+8)*3=(76)*3=228 (wrong) It was added as +30 on Oct2006, please everyone look over the math and let's fix this. So where it says in the text "Enhances Kick Attack Damage by 30 (equivalent to weapon with DMG +30)." it should really be changed to "Enhances Kick Attack Damage by 27 (equivalent to weapon with DMG +27)." We can even optionally add more info like examples ("For example it will change the maximum damage of kicks from 129 to 219"). --Genome 00:53, 5 August 2007 (CDT) 'Um...' I don't think people will want the 'For example...' part because they are looking for the benefit of the weapon or armor in an immediate format whereas this would be unnecessary clutter, imo. As for the DMG+27 vs DMG+30, math is a funny thing. People either love it or despise it. In my HONEST opinion it should stay as it is with the +30 BECAUSE, again imo, people will descredit this source if the populous agrees to one thing and one comes along to change it. The best example for this is religion and I'll leave it at that. --Edamus 07:58, 7 August 2007 (CDT) ---- The problem is that it predicts the wrong value. It's not that people agreed to a certain value, just the one guy who put the effort a year ago to post the latent effect here made a simple math error (he forgot the +3 weapon rating when comparing between damage with and without boots). Nobody cared enough to check it and just used it, but anybody including the person who originally posted this can verify it and immediately say "oops, yes sorry I forgot to add the 3 in the barekick calculations". +30 is just wrong and gives the wrong result as I showed, and should be fixed. It's not a matter of the general populus agreeing, or anything that can be discredited, it's just simple math. The game doesn't work as a poll system, if everyone believes strongly enough that they can punch for 99999 damage that's still not going to happen in the game. The "for example" part would seem useful because people often don't understand what that +30 means (some people even thought it was +30 damage on each kick, etc). That example removes any possible ambiguity plus it adds useful information about the actual magnitude of the change. People who play this game are not always going to solve the damage equations out to figure out how the damage rating change on kicks will change their damage, which leaves more rooms for wrong interpretations and confusions. I think it's a lot better to add just one short note here than to have to endure the endless new threads "are dune boots good" in every forum every few days... --Genome 14:23, 8 August 2007 (CDT) ---- As for the simple math error, I see no simple math. Not everyone here is a mathematician. Also not everyone interprets words the same way. The DMG+27 to DMG+30 if you feel that your elaborate mathmatical equation manifested from the bowels of your brain to be the correct one then go ahead and change it, your not gonna see me change it back. This will also manifest more forums discussion on which are better Wulong or Dune Boots... The 'For example' thing is unnecessary, if you put that there you need to put it in every single weapon that has DMG+# on it and that would be annoying as to say add a new page for it or something. As for the new post every few days it's gonna happen even if we put this here or not. Clogging up the page with For example this for example that is not how the page should look, imo. --Edamus 21:39, 8 August 2007 (CDT) ---- Nobody would ever argue between dune and wulong, since as I mentioned those are probably off by +3 too. The math again is not a matter of profession, you don't need to be a mathematician. Simply if you said it was +30 you would have to be able to show how you arrived at that and to show that assuming a +30 still predicts all the correct values of kicks as +27 does. If one number predicts all values correctly and another doesn't, you should use the one that predicts them correctly. Wulong's max damage would be 9 points less (so 210 instead of 219) and always lower than dune boots so it would never really be an argument. The number +27 is very useful to people who want to be able to predict kick damage under all situations, while the people who really say they don't like to add numbers or do math they would find "your max kicks will jump from 129 to 219" more informative since there is no math involved. Those numbers come directly from the game and something anybody can see for themselves ingame as long as they can read the log. You will find many useful notes in these wiki pages, especially when they are non-obvious. The max damage for weapons like swords is based just on the damage written on it, while for H2H it depends on skill too so it's not so obvious. I don't see any reason to leave something clearly incorrect on a wiki site, it basically defeats the purpose of it if people have to try to remember which information is wrong and which entry to ignore and which might be right. --Genome 02:06, 9 August 2007 (CDT) ---- Genome: Kick attacks don't have wrank. So while your calculations would predict a wrank of 3, leading to the conclusion that the base dmg is 27, the reality is they have a wrank of 0, leading to the conclusion that the base dmg is 30. Due to the coding of the game, only weapons can have wrank. Wrank is also fixed and cannot vary -- thus wrank for waghs while latent is active is one less than would be predicted, and raw h2h skill does not add to wrank, et cetera. --Aurikasura 17:30, 15 August 2007 (CDT) ---- Thanks for clarifying this, I can see now how he could have a D=30 accounting for both 129 and 219 if you assume that wrank will stay 0 for kicks no matter what. I know about the static wrank for latent weapons and that being static they don't include H2H skill etc. However the case of kick attack boots as you pose it would be a bit different, if they went with a static hidden/latent damage (without H2H skill of course) you would still expect a wrank of 3. But as you said they might be a special case because they are foot gear and not technically a weapon so the game as you suggest might not figure them in the wrank cap calculation. The one thing that I am still concerned about is that now both explanations seem possible and plausible (d=27 assuming normal wrank as in a weapon vs. D=30 assuming no wrank for kicks). There should be a situation where the two clearly make a different prediction so we can test unequivocably which one is correct, maybe with other gear like kung-fu shoes or with some level-capped H2H value? Do you know if anybody ever did that sort of test to verify it or have some links? Based on what you suggested I'd say D=30 should stay, but I would like to test or if needed eliminate completely the possibility of D=27 also because the wrank difference is an interesting implication, someone might also want to add that in somewhere either in the damage calculations or kick attacks pages as a note especially if it can be (or has been) checked out and verified. --Genome 23:17, 16 August 2007 (CDT) ---- Best way to determine this is to experiment in a non-fstr-capped situation. I can't remember where there is data that corroborates it, but should be not extremely hard to generate. --Aurikasura 23:11, 17 August 2007 (CDT) ---- I don't know if the values have changed or if there was a condition for the 219 crit hit max with dune boots but I just bought Wu Long shoes and like on my 9th kick I got a 270ish critical hit on a triple bat mob. I wish however I had a pic of the log now that I've read this article but I don't have any proof of it now. I was using footwork at the time. I'm a 75MNK/37WAR ELVAAN, I had 67+1 DEX and 75+24 STR. It was in the dungeon under Chateau D" Oraguille. I have 4 HTH merits but I don't know EXACTLY how it affects kick attacks. Freijn 01:12, 25 January 2009 (UTC) Enhances Jump Damage? Can we get a verification on the supposive jump damage boost? --Akashimo 21:05, 8 February 2009 (UTC) I did a test on ronfaure bunnies, it did not give a base jump damage boost and i'm not going to bother with testing for an attack boost (like drachen greaves), i'm calling malarky on this --Myrna 21:41, 3 May 2009 (UTC) Jump Damage Contrary to current perceptions, this item actually increase jump damage. Players calling foul on the enhancement are not properly testing the item in question. I.E: Jumping on mobs in East Ronfaure or West Saruta or South Gustaburg. People, if you're going to test something, for the LOVE OF GOD do it right. Tested via Lesser Colibri many times over the course of soloing for seals. Damage for jump increased by about 24 points on average over using any regular non-jump enhancing boots, and about 10 points over Drachen Greaves. I challenge anyone else to go out and test this against a mob that will show you results... Do not go out and jump on Too Weak enemies because you -will not- see anything accurate. There is a damage cap per mob per attack per rating to you, because the damage limiters are based on Str, Atk, Enemy Eva, Enemy Def, and the DMG of your weapon. Starlight 03:01, 21 August 2009 (UTC) You mention that the DMG of your weapon affects the damage cap. Seeing as the effect of dune boots is that they increase the DMG rating of your kicks by +30, one would think that the damage cap would go up while wearing them and thus test it on TW mobs where they can observe the change in the damage cap. --Urth 03:10, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Urthdigger, this is not about Kick Attacks, this is about Jump Damage, and for the record, that's not how it works. Once you've reached the Damage max, regardless of your weapon's damage, it will -never- increase. SE designed it into the game as a sort of "Fail-Safe" to keep damage consistant across a level spread. It's why you can't just whack a low level mob and see a difference in your actual preformance. Again, I'll said: If someone is going to test something, they need to do it right. -Starlight 04:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC) This is a bunch of nonsense. A jump damage hard cap? Give me a break. Dune boots do nothing for jump. --Bsphil 05:21, November 8, 2009 (UTC)